Trump Won the Debate – What Does it Mean?

Trump and Clinton mainly treated the audience and their questions as an annoying interlude to their dispute, flashing fake smiles before launching into their next tirade. Both candidates came off like divorcing parents interrupted by their concerned kids, thus angering them further. The final questioner even asked Clinton and Trump to say something nice about each other.

It was sad and it was a bit scary.

Did Trump win? It’s hard to say if such a debate, where two ultra-rich New Yorkers yell at each other about tax avoidance can be won — but if it can then Trump did win, in my view. He won by hammering home every point repeatedly, commandeering the town hall’s narrative and forcing Clinton constantly on the defensive at every opportunity. Trump won by sucking up all the oxygen in the debate hall. He won by taking the debate to the absolute maximum of serious, alarming accusations and showing how Clinton would only respond to it by saying mean things he had said.

Trump may be a king of flip flopping, but he still made Clinton look worse. This debate will be seen as a particularly big win for Trump among voters unimpressed by the media’s perceived crusade against their beloved real estate tycoon.

– From The Hill article: Trump Plays the Berserk Card for the Win

With his back completely up against the wall and everything on the line, Trump did exactly what he had to do last night to stay in the game and shift enough people’s attention away from the damaging audio released on Friday. Trump’s primary purpose in this debate couldn’t have been to shift the entire election back in his favor, that would’ve been virtually impossible outside of Hillary literally collapsing on stage. His primary objective was to stem the bleeding, and provide justification to those still open to the idea of “voting against Hillary Clinton” in this election. I think he did that.

Over the weekend I published a thought piece titled, Donald Trump is in Trouble – Part 2, in which I changed my prediction for the U.S. Presidential race for the first time — I now anticipate a win for Hillary Clinton. So did the debate affect my prediction? No. I continue to think Hillary will win, but I think it’ll be a close race and it’s certainly not over. A bad performance last night would’ve probably buried Trump for good, so he has at least kept himself in the game. As such, the next month will likely make the craziest works of political fiction look tame by comparison. The only way for Trump to win is make the Clintons look as bad as he does in the eyes of enough of the public, and there’s plenty of ammunition to work with.

Which brings me to the biggest takeaway from the debate, the extraordinary weakness of Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee. Imagine if Bernie Sanders was the nominee instead, and he was the one on stage two days after the Trump audio was released. What would Trump have done? Every single effective attack he used against Hillary couldn’t have been used against Bernie. There was the email scandal, her penchant for war (and advocacy for more), her husband’s history of sexual abuse, and of course, her mega donors on Wall Street, and elsewhere. None of these things could’ve been thrown at Bernie Sanders. He could’ve walked over to Trump and pushed him over with his pinky. The only reason Donald Trump is still alive in this race is due to Hillary Clinton being an unbelievably awful, and justifiably widely despised opponent.

I got plenty of heat for Saturday’s post predicting a Trump loss, as many claimed that most voters won’t be swayed by the audio. I agree with this position, but that wasn’t the point I was making. My point was that enough “flirting with Trump voters” are now more likely to stay home or go third party in disgust with both candidates. I still think that’s the case.

As far as the initial reaction, my analysis appears correct. According to the latest poll by Rasmussen, which tends to poll in Trump’s favor, we learned the following:

Republican nominee Donald Trump has been clobbered in the White House Watch survey following the release of a video showing him discussing women in graphic sexual detail.

Rasmussen Reports’ latest national telephone and online survey of Likely U.S. Voters finds that Democrat Hillary Clinton has now jumped out to a seven-point lead – 45% to 38% – over Trump. On Friday, the two were in a virtual tie – Clinton 43%, Trump 42%.

Many people like to compare this election to Brexit, and I think that’s a fair comparison in many respects. Nevertheless, there is a huge difference between the two. Brexit was more about a specific policy change than it was about personalities, while the U.S. Presidential election is more about electing a person than it is policy. You can convince yourself all you want that this isn’t the case this time, but it is. We all know politicians lie and that we can’t trust anything they say. So in Presidential elections, personalities still matter. Moreover, when it comes to personalities, the UK had Nigel Farrage, while the U.S. has Donald Trump. Any questions?

With the election now an obvious national embarrassment from all perspectives, I am going to increasingly look toward the future, and it’s not a pretty picture. No matter who wins in November, a large percentage of the population is going to despise that person, and even consider him or her to be illegitimate. Couple that with an economic downturn, and we have the recipe for some of the worst years in American history ahead of us. How we respond to the challenge will determine the future for our children.

In Liberty,
Michael Krieger

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10 thoughts on “Trump Won the Debate – What Does it Mean?”

  1. “No matter who wins in November, a large percentage of the population is going to despise that person, and even consider him or her to be illegitimate.”

    This is the one point in this whole process you can be 100% sure of. We will have half the country despising a political lightning rod that the other half looks to as the country’s savior.

    I personally believe low-level civil disobedience and perhaps more incidents of outright defiance are nearly unavoidable at this point. Neither candidate is likely to be the “we lost but we support the process” type, whether openly (Trump) or obliquely (Clinton).

    There has been a polarization that is nearly complete in American political discourse. The only peaceful way around it is if Hillary is completely obliterated, showing that the vast majority of Americans do, in fact, prefer a boor to a corrupt murderess. Short of that, you can just about bet the next four years are going to be among the most turbulent in American history since the Civil War. This is going to make the Viet Nam schism between young and old look like a picnic. This time around, it has nothing to do with age. You either believe Hillary or Trump’s story. There’s very little latitude for compromise among either set of followers.

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  2. The next four years… This is our “Howard Beale” moment. Voting for Trump is basically sticking our heads out the window and shouting. “I’m made as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”. We the population just don’t despise the candidates, we despise Washington. Washington with its black budget and deep state is Mordor. It has the anti-midis touch. It destroys everything it touches. Iraq, Libya, planet earth. etc. Now we can throw the ring into the molten lava by voting for Trump and hopefully rebuild. Or suffer gangrene with Clinton.

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  3. To me the contrast between the two was plain as day by Friday afternoon. Both had “gotchas” thrown at them which were indented by their releasers to help their opponent. But the reactions to each – driven by corporate media and obediently followed by the compliant masses – could not have been more different.

    Given what we already knew about Trump, anyone who claims to be shocked by his private conversation or who has had an epiphany regarding his fitness to be POTUS is either a liar or plain delusional. And any American Male who claims to have never heard women discussed in such terms (let alone having engaged in such talk themselves) is a double liar. It’s a classic case of “It’s OK when I do it but not someone else”. Or, “It’s OK until you get caught on tape”. While I do not in any way defend the misogyny portrayed in that conversation, Trump was not directing his vulgarity at all women but rather at those who shamelessly throw themselves at men who are rich and/or celebrities. Being on the receiving end of that has to somewhat impact one’s perspective. At the very least these are not the archetypes of modern, empowered women which the feminist movement projects.

    Now contrast that with the Wikileaks revelations about Hillary’s super-secret Wall St. engagements. In reality, none of that was the lest bit shocking either. This is the bought-and-paid-for corporatist Hillary we all know is there, buried beneath that phony, smug smile and shallow platitudes about “we need to do more…”. This is the Hillary who will give us TPP in the first 100 days and escalate our military involvement in the ME. All for fun and (personal) profit.

    Yet both her campaign and the corporate media (to the extent there is a differentiation) chose to gloss over the revelations. Even worse, they continue to peddle the lies that she “cares” about the American middle class (which she feels so far above now that she’s a part of the global elite) and will work to make every American’s life better under her administration. You can almost picture her laughing so hard she spits Dom Perignon out her nose while discussing policy goals with Lloyd Blankfein and friends. Her attempt to compare herself to Abraham Lincoln – along with Trump’s utter destruction of her comparison – was, I think, the highlight of last evening’s cage match.

    God help us indeed.

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  4. I like the analogy of the debate last night being like children watching their parents argue; but to me it was more like adults listening to their children argue. I must have double-face-palmed at least a dozen times. I just kept thinking: we’re screwed.

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  5. “Trump may be a king of flip flopping….”

    Disagree. they take a view Trump had 10 years ago and the fact that he has a different view now and they say he flip flopped. Why can’t someone learn over time that a previously held view may just be the wrong one? Try looking at Hitlery’s flipping and flopping especially on TPP and racism.

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  6. If Trump loses, we will look back in the future that that was our last time to peacefully get our nation back. It Trump loses, I am done with this system. I will not vote anymore, at least at the federal level. Voting just legitimizes it.

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  7. Michael, why are you here? Why do you write these articles? Was it for personal affirmation or did you hope to make a difference for change? You seem awakened and you have awakened others.

    We now have a candidate that is not the ruling oligarchy’s. We know that Clinton was chosen by them. We know she is unfit, physically, mentally, and ethically.

    McCain will not endorse Trump anymore for his potty mouth 10 years ago, even though he has said worse things. Look up his rape by an ape joke. The real reason he wants Clinton is that Clinton’s foreign policy is indistinguishable from McCain’s and the other neocons. She looks to American empire. Trump has shown no such inclination.

    Getting back to why you are here. This is a once in a life time opportunity to get our nation back to the people. I have many differences with him. I did with Ron Paul. He never spoke about 9/11.

    We know the ruling oligarchy is against him by the effort be used. The financial and media powers that be are united. The do not even try to hide it. It is all rigged.

    The is no ideal candidate, not even Sanders. It anyone was a credible threat, you still would see the same effort to destroy the character of that person.

    Here is something to think about. Trump has been known for over 20 years. Were what is being thought about him now also thought before he was a candidate?

    This is not a choice between two evils. We have one that is evil.

    If Trump is not elected, there is no point in you continuing your web site. The political process is too rigged for peaceful change.

    I want to close with a quote that I believe comes from JFK. It goes something like this: “Those that make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable”

    Reply
    • 1) I don’t see the choices the way you do and I have articulated why. You can respect me and my decision or you don’t have to read my website.

      2) If Trump is not elected, there is even more reason to continue my website, and that will be clear once it happens. A President isn’t going to save us, we will need to stand up take action and save ourselves.

      3) If you want to give up and leave the country after Hillary wins be my guest. I’ll be part of the resistance whether you want to read me or not.

  8. Before the election, I will continue reading you and maybe linking to you. You give the best reasons for not wanting her in office. Nothing you have said about Trump comes close to what Clinton has done or will do. If she wins, I will not read anymore. I do not see the point. We will say, “Yeah, we knew that would happen.” Furthermore, as we have seen with the FBI investigation, she will not be held accountable for anything. A dictatorship will probably be started.

    If she wins, it just confirms what many have thought about this nation. We are not a democratic republic.

    My biggest difference with you is not Trump. It is that you believe you are part of the resistance. You need to hear what Chris Duane says about this election. He is closer to your view about Trump than me. But, he seems to have completely given up on the political process. He is more about preparing and saving oneself and distancing oneself from the system. I never really understood that until this election.

    I will not be leaving this country. I will try to live with it the best I can. If there is an economic collapse, I will see that as an opportunity to go off grid and distance myself.

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    • Everyone will be faced with their own conclusions following this dumpster fire of an election. I do agree that personal responsibility and personal action in your everyday life will be a key component to resistance, whether you see it that way or not.

      I will be writing about that in future posts. I understand your frustrations and wish you the best. I will continue to resist in a manner I deem effective. If my writing is no longer appealing to you, I understand.

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